Who Won the Debate? Red Mitten Members Say Romney

Wednesday's "debate was the most decisive victory since Kennedy beat Nixon,” one Republican influencer said of the first showdown between Barack Obama and Mitt Romney.

Mitt Romney won Wednesday night’s presidential debate in "decisive" fashion, according to a Wednesday night flash survey of influential Republicans.

Fifty-eight Republicans from southeastern Michigan used an automated anonymous survey tool to offer their opinions about the first presidential debate between Barack Obama and Romney.

Eighteen Red Mitten responses were collected over a 90-minute period. This poll differed from our previous Red Mitten survey in that responses were taken in a much shorter time frame.

“Tonight's debate was the most decisive victory since Kennedy beat Nixon,” one Republican influencer said. “It changes the campaign narrative and changes the momentum toward Mitt Romney.”

Sixteen of the Republican insiders said Romney won the debate “by a wide margin.” Two said they were neutral.

“Mitt jumped out the gate and took the lead and never got behind,” a respondent said.

Republican insiders lauded Romney for focusing on specific issues, for his stance on taxes and for his commitment to eliminate “Obamacare.”

In addition, 17 of 18 Republican respondents said they believe Romney’s performance in the debate made it more likely that he would win the election.

“Romney was presidential, knowledgeable and confident as well as respectful throughout the debate,” one Republican influencer said. “His closing statement ‘keep America strong and get America working again’ is right on target for voters.”

Thirty-one Democrats from southeastern Michigan also were questioned, and five responses were collected over the same 90-minute period.

The Democratic respondents were split over who won the debate: two picked Obama, two picked Romney and one was neutral.

Democratic influencers supported Obama for his stance on Medicare, Social Security and health care, while others criticized the president for his lack of passion in the debate.

“President O. needs to hold Mitt's toes to the fire and not say ‘I agree with the Governor’ of the things he agrees about,” one respondent said. “It's not necessary and makes Mitt look better than he is.”

The Red and Blue Mitten Surveys

Our surveys are not a scientific random sample of any larger population, but rather an effort to listen to influential local Republican and Democratic activists, party leaders and elected officials in Michigan. All of these individuals have agreed to participate in the surveys, although not all responded to today’s questions. Surveys were conducted Wednesday, Oct. 3, between 10:30 p.m. and midnight.

Patch will be conducting Red Mitten surveys for Republicans and Blue Mitten surveys for Democrats throughout 2012 in hopes of determining the true sentiment of conservatives and liberals in Michigan. If you are an activist, party leader or elected official and would like to take part in weekly surveys that last just a few minutes, please email Associate Regional Editor John Hetzler at john.hetzler@patch.com.

Red Michigan roster: Prudy Adam (Genesee County Republican Chair); Neal Barnett (Bloomfield Township Trustee); Brian Belesky; Cindy Berry (Candidate for Chesterfield Township Clerk); Mark Bliss (Candidate for State Rep); Tony Brown (Fenton Township Trustee); Dino Bucci (Macomb Township Trustee); Jim Carson (Dexter Village trustee); Jacob Collison; Helen Cost (Past President of Royal Oak Republican Women’s Club); Sean Cotton; Hugh Crawford (State Rep); Kathy Crawford (Oakland County Commissioner); Joseph Daly; Dan Devine (Bloomfield Township Treasurer); Chuck Dittmar; James Drolett (Candidate for Dexter Township Supervisor); Janet Dunn (Macomb Township Trustee); Ron Dwyer; Ryan Eaton; Kathy Elliott; Justin Fischer (Novi City Council); Anthony Forlini (State Rep); Becky Freeman; Scott Freeman; Bob Gatt (Mayor of Novi); Matt Germane (Hartland Township Trustee); Joe Green; Pat Hardy (Bloomfield Hills City Commissioner); Karen Jacobsen; Corinne Khederian (Bloomfield Township Trustee); Richard Lerner (Farmington Hills City Council); C.J. Maier (Candidate for sheriff in Livingston County); Mike McCready (Bloomfield Hills City Commissioner, Candidate for State Rep); Sarah McLure (Bloomfield Hills Mayor); Rob Montilla (Chairman of the Republican Committee of Northern Macomb County); Drex Morton; Nancy Nevers (Macomb Township Trustee); Brian Perks; Mark Ouimet (State Rep); Thomas Pustelak; Harley Rider (Dexter Township Clerk); Janet Roncelli (Bloomfield Township Clerk); Jim Runestad (Oakland County Commissioner); Joe Sabatini (Macomb County Commissioner); Aaron Sarver (U-M Dearborn College Republicans Co-Chairman); John A. Scott (Oakland County Commissioner); Bill Shaw (Candidate for Oakland County Commissioner); Pat Somerville (State Rep); David Staudt (Mayor Pro-Tem of Novi); Shelley Taub (Bloomfield Township Clerk); Aaron Tuckfield; Brad Urdan (candidate for state Rep); Wanda Warsinski (President of Royal Oak Republican Women’s Club); Paul Welday; Pamela Williams; John Wolfsberger (Macomb Township Precinct Delegate); Wayne Wrobel (Novi City Council); Tom Yaschen (Chesterfield Township Trustee)

Blue Mitten roster: Vicki Barnett, State House Rep; Joanne Braund, Secretary, Royal Oak Area Democratic Club; Rose Christoph; Dorian Coston, candidate for State Rep; Colleen Crossey, Oakland County Democratic Delegate; Gary Cynowa, President of the North Macomb Democratic Club and District 10 Precinct Delegate; Susan Czarnecki; Judy Daubenmier, chair of Livingston County Democrats; Shawn Desai, Democratic Candidate for State Representative 47th District; Gretchen Driskell, Mayor of Saline; Gene Farber, West Bloomfield Township Board Trustee; Marcia Gershenson, Oakland County commissioner; Fred Hoffman; Mitzi Hoffman, former Chair, Royal Oak Area Democratic Club; Marilyn Krok, Oakland County Democratic Delegate; Kathi Kuehnel, Oakland County Democratic Delegate; Carmella Langley, Oakland County Democratic Delegate; Erik Lindquist; Deb Lobring; Jeff Long; Daniel Marcin, former candidate for U.S. Representative; Gwen Markham, candidate for Oakland County commissioner; Richard Miller, president of the Wyandotte Democratic Club; Jim Nash, Oakland County commissioner; Kevin Shopshire, member of Livingston County Democrats; Mike Smith, candidate for White Lake Township Supervisor; Walt Sobczak, Oakland County Democratic Delegate; Mark Steckloff; Regina Strong, former candidate for State Rep; Scott Warheit, Royal Oak Crime Prevention Council, and 2011 candidate for Royal Oak City Comission; Karen Zyczynski, Oakland County Democratic Delegate

Bruce October 08, 2012 at 08:30 PM
Winning a debate doesn't mean an winning an election. Post-2012 debate polls had Ron Paul as the decisive winner. Now we have the media appointed and anointed candidates. The whole general election is a staged circus...IMO.
Lee Jacobsen October 08, 2012 at 09:07 PM
Sandy, do you want Mitt to do all of Obama's work for him by giving him the answers? FHvolice, your links do not work, so much for backing up your data. Regarding $100,000 on the whim of one employee, very true. With 54 employees, that means 34 x $3000 or $102 thousand penalty. For 2014 it starts at $2000 per worker or a mere $64,000 penalty. Penalty for Companies Not Providing Insurance to Employees If a company with 50 or more employees provides no insurance to its employees or the insurance provided is substandard or too costly, there is an additional penalty to the company. The penalty is stiff: $2,000 times the number of employees, with a 30-employee offset. This penalty will apply if even one employee goes outside of the company-offered plan to an insurance exchange for coverage. Source Forbes. http://www.forbes.com/sites/advisor/2012/07/09/what-obamacare-will-do-to-your-taxes/ Simple solution for companies, stay below 50 employees, fire folk to get to 49, hire temps, anything to avoid the penalties. Result, job loss and stagnated job growth. Who wants a bunch of temp jobs? Apparently Obama wants business to go that direction. Obama and obamacare, bad idea.
Carolo October 08, 2012 at 10:31 PM
Romney won the debate on preformance. He lost the debate on substrance because he lied thru the whole thing. He said his health plan included pre-existing conditions. He lied. His aide after the debate said that was not true but Romney does not have the kahuna's to admit his (error) Lie. That leaves out 86 million people. Ryan says medicare will be gone "as we know it". Romney said he will strength it. Romney denied he will make cuts to schools. Three months ago he was interviewing teachers and his cuts are substantial. He will give more tax cuts to the rich, more subsidies to big oil, claims he will reduce taxes for the rest of us. Now how will he pay down the debt reducing taxes, pay for two wars, and still give more breaks to the rich. Impossible! But then, at the debate he denied saying any of them and I've been listening to him for the last year saying just that.
Marie Mayes October 08, 2012 at 10:45 PM
there are three more choices on the ballot
Marie Mayes October 08, 2012 at 10:49 PM
Romney lied 11 times so who truthfully can say Obama failed?
Marie Mayes October 08, 2012 at 10:52 PM
I agree he won but not by telling the truth. He forcefully lied 11 times. Check the facts. We need a third party. Try Virgil Goode, Jr. he's running
Marie Mayes October 08, 2012 at 10:55 PM
I agree and his flip flop answers. Who was that who said I was for it before I was against it but now I am for it again? Remember that! That is where Romney is or was or is again
Lianne Mathie October 08, 2012 at 10:57 PM
Quote " So there obviously was a cost savings because of Bush's policy." Did I just read that? Holy jumping facts. The cost saving would have been there if he never went to war in the first place.Good Grief.
Marie Mayes October 08, 2012 at 10:58 PM
You mean the guy who keeps calling trying to scare us White folks into voting for him? Try the Virgil Goode, Jr. & J. Clymer ticket.
Marie Mayes October 08, 2012 at 11:01 PM
I agree and I checked. He also lied 11 times. It is hard to believe someone who flip flops and then lies about the flip
Marie Mayes October 08, 2012 at 11:07 PM
According to the Constitution, all government expenditures have to be approved by Congress so NO President can just cut what he wants to cut.
Marie Mayes October 08, 2012 at 11:12 PM
Maybe he is but he does not get on National TV and build a case on 11 not ten 11 lies to get his point across. Karen thank your husband for me as well. Maybe you Bobbie are drinking Romney lie- spiked kool aid.
Marie Mayes October 08, 2012 at 11:14 PM
I agree and once I checked things out I found he lied 11 times not only that but don't you get dizzy from him being for something that a month ago he was against?
Marie Mayes October 08, 2012 at 11:17 PM
I agree 100%. He is too slick for me with his flip flopping and lies and arrogance and disrespect for the moderator.
Marie Mayes October 08, 2012 at 11:20 PM
Vivi yes he was prepared .........to lie not to tell us the truth on anything. He is the one that scares me and I agree with Ray
Erin October 08, 2012 at 11:53 PM
Keith - apparently you've never had to deal with the bureaucracy of the private insurance world. I've spent countless not very enjoyable hours over the years fighting/dealing with them. Neither Romneycare nor Obamacare is a "government takeover". And they are both nearly identical to Republican legislation from 1993- including the individual mandate - later called "free rider surcharge penalty" in Romneycare 2006.
FHVoice October 09, 2012 at 12:43 PM
Lee, which link would not work for you? As for your declaration: "Only one person has to divert, and I get penalized, in my case, $100,000. With Obamacare, I pay an additional $318,000." Try getting a better understanding using the flowchart here: http://healthreform.kff.org/the-basics/employer-penalty-flowchart.aspx Using the chart, if a company with 50 or more employees provides no insurance to its employees, the company pays a fine of $2000 X (total employees - 30). In your example, a company of 54 would pay $2,000 x (54-30) = $48,000. If a company provides insurance that is "inadequate" [substandard (pays less than 60% of covered health care expenses) or too costly (employees have to pay more than 9.5% of family income)], the penalty is $3,000 / each employee who buys coverage from an exchange. However, the max penalty is capped at $2,000 X (total employees - 30). Worse case - if you provided "inadequate" medical insurance and all 54 employees bought from an exchange, the penalty would be capped at $2,000 X (54-30) or $48,000. If only one of your employees bought from the exchange and the insurance you provided was "inadequate", your penalty would be $3,000. If the insurance you provided was "adequate", there would be NO penalty to you no matter how many employees bought from the exchange. Bottom line, calm down - you need to stop using Romney math - and get a better accountant.
Lee Jacobsen October 09, 2012 at 02:20 PM
Carolo, Obama's actions label him as a liar. That is a lot more definitive that Romney's politico speak. We need some compromise in govt, Obama does not know what that word means. Romney does, he proved it in PA, time to do it nationally. Regarding Obamacare and penalties, the chart was helpful, but it also illustrated the needless complexity of Obamacare, and still links business and healthcare, which should not be the case. I am not in business to worry about healthcare. I hire folk to do a job, make auto parts. If folk want healthcare, they should have the freedom to purchase it anywhere they please, and without my input in the matter. I will give them a $$ stake, then it's up to them. That is a lot more than many companies will offer, especially the smaller shops like mine. The large companies may do the same. See here. http://www.bizjournals.com/chicago/news/2012/09/27/sears-changing-health-care-platform.html Another reason many companies will reduce in size, or hire temps, and resent our govt. Everyone should have some skin in the healthcare game, and the perception among the masses is that 'I will be coddled and taken care of' while doing nothing but going to work. What's next? Free food? Oops!, that already is happening , with record amounts of food stamps being issued. I think I may qualify, looking at the vehicles some of those folks drive, mine is only a Jeep Cherokee.
FHVoice October 09, 2012 at 04:01 PM
A couple of Romney lies: 1. Romney says health insurance premiums have gone up $2,500 under Obama. The actual increase has been $1,700, most of which was absorbed by employers and only a small part of which is attributable to the health care law. 2. Romney claimed "all of the increase in natural gas and oil has happened on private land...Your Administration has cut the numbers of permit and licenses in half.” Actually, data from the Bureau of Land Management shows that “the number of drilling permits on federal lands approved during the fiscal years President Obama has been in office has decreased somewhere between 20% and 37% compared to the years before he became president - 50%.” More importantly, here are the facts about American energy production. • Oil production hit an 8-year high in 2011. • Natural gas production was at an all-time high in 2011. • Drilling activity reached its highest level under Obama than at any point since Reagan. • The oil and gas industry had conducted production or exploration activities on just 56% of public lands leased in the U.S. In fact, the oil and gas industry is sitting on more than 20 million acres of idle lands already leased for development. • As of January 25, 2012, the oil and gas industry had 6,500 unused drilling permits for federal lands. Renewable energy such as wind and solar power has nearly doubled since 2008.
Erin October 09, 2012 at 04:26 PM
Lee - "Everyone should have some skin in the healthcare game, and the perception among the masses is that 'I will be coddled and taken care of' while doing nothing but going to work." - Yes, yes!! That's EXACTLY why Republicans came up with the "Individual Mandate" back in the early 1990's, why Romney included it (as a free rider penalty surcharge) in his Romneycare 2006. Obamacare and Romneycare include the mandate which is based on a Republican tenet of "personal responsibility" - and I whole- heartedly agree (then and now)!! Getting everyone on insurance (of their choice), paying into the system not only requires personal responsibility, but enables long term bending of the cost-curves of medical care since folks are incented to get PREVENTIVE care prior to costly surgeries and other treatments. Also, the "individual mandate" helps solve the problem from the totally unfunded healthcare "group mandate" passed by Reagan in 1986. A basic description of the EMTALA legislation: "It requires hospitals to provide care to anyone needing emergency healthcare treatment regardless of citizenship, legal status or ability to pay. There are no reimbursement provisions." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_Medical_Treatment_and_Active_Labor_Act A good discussion of the implications here in Forbes magazine: http://www.forbes.com/sites/aroy/2012/02/07/the-tortuous-conservative-history-of-the-individual-mandate/
FHVoice October 09, 2012 at 04:39 PM
Romney's lies are just politico speak? This is the kind of low bar we usually see from people with Obama Derangement Syndrome: they'd vote for Generalissimo Francisco Franco before they'd see President Obama get re-elected. And yes, Generalissimo Francisco Franco is still dead. And this is a hoot: "We need some compromise in govt, Obama does not know what that word means. Romney does, he proved it in PA, time to do it nationally." Ok, #1 - Romney was governor in MA, not PA. #2 - GOP leaders conspired on January 20, 2009 to do anything and everything they could to make the administration of President Obama, just inaugurated, a failure. #3 - This is the definition of "compromise" in GOP land - "Tea Party Senate Candidate Says Compromise Means Democrats Agree With Republicans" http://goo.gl/gSx4L #4 - Romney "bipartisan" in MA? Hogwash. Romney’s health care plan was enacted with the help of a Democratic legislature. But in general, the body was “frustrated” with Romney “because he wanted to govern like a ‘CEO’ and ‘didn’t pay heed to the legislature and they resented that,’” according to the Massachusetts Taxpayer Foundation’s Michael Widmer. Watch Romney. You see that aristocratic "I'm above you all" attitude on full display - a guy thinking being in the executive office meant you could rule like a CEO. He has a record of autocratic rule, not bipartisanship. Check out http://goo.gl/tBULW Reject the lying, aristocratic debater: Obama/Biden 2012.
R Gibson October 12, 2012 at 12:59 PM
Pay no attention to FHVoice. He or She is a hired thug from the Obama Campaign trolling Social Media sites trying to spread his propoganda.
Master Chief RET October 14, 2012 at 10:35 PM
FH you must be the 30 percent that gets everything for nothing and put's nothing back in the economy.
Ray Smith October 14, 2012 at 10:45 PM
FHVoice is precisely right. Everyone here would be wise to heed his insights.
JMB October 14, 2012 at 11:02 PM
FH Voice, must be making alot of money with all the cut and pastes that he/she just passes on from Central planning. You pick and choose what you want to respond to. Are you proud of Our Dear Leader adding 5 trillion to the debt, or that if he has 4 more years he will have added more to the debt than ALL PREVIOUS PRESIDENTS COMBINED. Also why did he ignore the pleas of our Ambassador in Libya for protection and then lie to the American People as to the reason for the attack. Each taxpayer owes$180,000 to pay for the debt, since it is TAXPAYERS- I doubt that FH Voice is affected. How do you explain the price of gas doubling. How do you explain the record number of people on food stamps if the economy is so good. You know the only way that Obama is able to lie about the employment in the economy is when people stop looking for work. That is quite an accomplishment. How about tackling the fact that US killed in Afghanistan is up 240%. By letting the enemy know when we are withdrawing it is putting our troops at greater risk. How about tackling the fact that Obamacare was put through by buying votes, parliamentary tricks and most importantly against the will of the people. Obama could care less what the average American wants. The SS Obama is taking on water quickly. Most people I talk to feel they are losing the country that they knew, for those who feel that way and want to start to turn it around- vote Romney & Ryan 2012
Master Chief RET October 15, 2012 at 12:15 AM
Ray Smith I have a reply to you. Vietnam was started by President Lyndon Johnson there was not torpedo boats in the gulf of tonkin the sorties from the Independence reported no boats in the area. The Turner Joy and Maddox were out there but all they could see was heavy fog in the area. How do I know all of this because I was there on 7th fleet flag ship plotting the ship's that were in the area. So in retrospect your saying we should have not responded for all of the people who lost there lives on 9/11 that was not the time to turn the other cheek. No matter what you think you have that right. We also lost many troops when the they told North Vietnam we were with drawing. War is not a pleasant thing it really bad for your health.
Frank October 15, 2012 at 05:30 PM
President Obama-He won't say how he fixed the economy....oops, that right..He didn't.
Dale Behler October 16, 2012 at 01:19 PM
A vote for the Libertarian Party is a vote for the Democrats. It currently splits the Republican ticket but has little impact on the Democrats. A centrist third party which would appeal to some independents who are slightly left or right of center would be nice. Both the Democrats and the Republicans seem to be for certain special interest segments of the population and they do not look out for the rest of us who do fit into their box of preferred citizens.
FHVoice October 17, 2012 at 04:00 PM
Stop lying: "Vietnam was started by President Lyndon Johnson". Actually, our involvement in Vietnam started under Eisenhower.
John David October 17, 2012 at 04:16 PM
FHVoice, our involvement in Vietnam may have started under Eisenhower and continued under Kennedy, but Master Chief is correct, it wasn't until the Tonkin Gulf Resolution under Johnson that the use of conventional troops were authorized for use and the rapid escalation of the conflict into a war, which resulted in the deaths of over 50,000 American service members. So, until Johnson, our involvement in Vietnam was limited and did not amount to a full fledged war with U.S. involvement.


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